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The following is a look into the evolution of the F/ZR 800 since 2012. When I’ve seen the comment, “Arctic Cat has had same sled since 2012” I’ve simply replied, “Current models aren’t even close to the same sled as 2012.” I’m fortunate enough to have owned, or longterm ridden, every variation of the F/ZR 800 since 2012, and realized my reply doesn’t resonate with those who haven’t had the same firsthand opportunity.

Thinking about it more, I decided to pick one model and document its journey through these years, as I myself, was curious to relive the evolution. F/ZR models equipped with an 800cc engine were consistently offered and the best to take a look at.

It’s been said with time, the memory fades, and I found that very true. I had forgotten about a lot of the changes since 2012, or more accurately, had forgotten the timeframes in which model years they happened. What I do know, is my original reply still stands very true – these F/ZR units have evolved greatly since 2012. In fact, a 2022 is superior in terms of handling over something as recent as a 2019. Read more to find out what changes took place. -Kale

***Things I didn’t note in here are shock calibration and ECU changes. Those happen EVERY single year.

2012 F800 MODELS

F800 LXR



2012 F800 Sno Pro

Procross Chassis

Tapered 2-piece Tunnel

Arctic Drive System (ADS) with Torque Control Link (TCL)

RMC Hydraulic Brake System

ARS Front Suspension

800H.O. Suzuki engine

15x128x1.25 2-ply Ripsaw with 2.52 Pitch

FOX FLOAT 2 Ski Shocks

FOX ZERO PRO  shocks in rear skidframe

6-inch plastic ski

10.6 Gallon Fuel Tank

2013 F800 MODELS

F800 LXR





The 2013 F800 marketing images were photographed with the same tapered tunnel introduced in 2012, but by production, it was replaced with a new flat top tunnel design.
  1. F800 model line nearly the same as 2012 specs but new models added
  2. After the first year, the 2013 models came with a late change by production and could be considered a new chassis as Arctic Cat transitioned away from the tapered tunnel in favor of new 2-piece flat-top design
  3. Track pitch updated from 2.52 to 2.86
  4. F800 SNO PRO RR adds Race Version of RMC brake, Race Version of SLIDE-ACTION rear skidframe, Race Running boards and FOX FLOAT EVOL X shocks in front and FOX ZERO X Remote Reservoir shocks in rear

Tucker Hibbert Edition Launched – History Note: During this timeframe, Tucker Hibbert was winning nearly every Pro National Snocross Championship across the planet (2011 ISOC Stock and Open Championships, 2010/2012 FIM World Championship, 2013 ISOC Open Champion, 2013 Clash of Nations Pro Open Champ) and the King of Snocross wanted Arctic Cat fans to own a limited edition snowmobile bearing his name, and give it his signature black look resembling what he was racing on the track. The time was right for this model, but the champ was concerned the signature edition didn’t have a 600cc engine. (It wasn’t offered in the Arctic Cat line-up at the time) He thought there may be confusion with customers if it was considered a Race Replica but had an 800, and not a 600, like he dominated with on the snocross track. Thoughts about the confusion calmed, and the model was launched as an 800. A second Tucker Hibbert version returned in 2015 with Arctic Cat’s new C-TEC2 6000 engine. (Here’s a story on a 2015 I own)


2014 ZR8000 MODELS

ZR8000 LXR




2014 ZR8000 Sno Pro
  1. ZR name returns replacing F which was first launched on the 2003 Firecat (F/5/6/7)
  2. Series Names (8000) were added to all model names in an effort to clarify horsepower classes. A vast number of customers were confused between the extensive model offerings and the growing number of four-strokes added to the line-up, as well as an all-new 600 two-stroke engine. (IE: How does an 1100 have less power than an 800?) 
  3. New forged lightweight ARS spindles drop 1lb
  4. Fuel Capacity was increased 15% (10.6 gallons to 11.7)
  5. New Coolant Reservoir is now clear for visibility
  6. New Seat Foam, shape, added height and new sculpting for improved ergos and comfort
  7. New Driven Clutch Sheave with larger cooling fins to reduce belt temps and improve durability
  8. New Fixed Clutch Guard – one-piece for durability
  9. New brake disc cover – improved for increased durability
  10. Track length is now 15×129 vs 128 in previous years
  11. New Front Arm mounting geometry to decrease track tensioning during suspension compression
  12. FOX FLOAT 3 ski shocks introduced
  13. New Arctic Cat IFP Rear skidframe shocks introduced
  14. Tunnel mounted belt and storage bags introduced

2015 ZR8000 MODELS

ZR 8000 LXR




ZR 8000 RR

2015 ZR8000 El Tigre
  1. New side panel design includes external vent duct to improve air flow and cool clutches reducing their operating temperatures. (Maybe this should have been called GENII bodywork? This is first bodywork change since introduction in 2012. The next bodywork redesign would come in 2017, which was officially referred to as GENII, but maybe should have been GENIII?)
  2. Driven shaft assembly features a larger diameter, with a snap-ring bearing mount instead of a taper-lock bearing, for improved durability and serviceability 
  3. Bleed shim valving in the FOX FLOAT 3 ski shocks for improved comfort and control in bumps and on trails. (SNO PRO/LIMITED/EL TIGRE)
  4. New involute/exvolute track drive sprockets with improved pitch profile for increased performance and smoothness
  5. Deeper, more aggressive host bar on the split skag dual carbide ski runners provides more precise cornering performance.
  6. Idler wheel blocks on the rear suspension are now made from magnesium instead of aluminum and feature 6mm fasteners for reduced weight
  7. New hooked Sno Pro brake lever on all Limited and El Tigre models 

2016 ZR8000 MODELS

ZR 8000 LXR (129/137)

ZR 8000 SNO PRO (129/137)

ZR 8000 LIMITED (129/137)

ZR 8000 EL TIGRE (129)

ZR 8000 RR (129)

2016 ZR8000
  1. New TEAM Rapid Response Drive Clutch delivers smoother shifting and optimal performance and maximum durability in a lightweight package
  2. TEAM Rapid Reaction BOSS Driven Clutch for maximum performance and durability has less rotating mass and optimized cooling
  3. New Borg Warner chain and sprocket assembly adds durability with 20% less chain stretch. 
  4. New tensioner pad made of Vespal adds greater durability
  5. New Tri-Hub rear wheel assembly design features serviceable bearings
  6. New front arm and rear axle in rear skidframe improved for durability
  7. New Quick Adjust FOX QS3 shocks introduced exclusive to Arctic Cat with Soft, Medium and Firm manual adjust dial settings that nearly replicate three shock packages in one. (LXR, ZR and RR)
  8. New Dual-Rate front track shock spring improves cornering, has greater compliance and comfort in stutter bumps and retains big bump control
  9. New Rear Torsion springs in rear skidframe feature 11% lighter spring rate for improved ride quality in all conditions
  10. New Dual offset deep split-runners standard on skis
  11. New jackshaft 30% increase in torsional stiffness
  12. RMC hydraulic brake upgraded to Race Version with 9/16 master cylinder
  13. New lightweight drilled brake disc
  14. New brake pads added from ZR race sled

2017 ZR8000 MODELS

ZR8000 LXR (129/137)

ZR8000 SNO PRO (129/137)

ZR8000 LIMITED (129/137)

ZR8000 EL TIGRE (129/137)

ZR8000 RR (129/137)

2017 ZR8000
  1. New FOX 1.5 ZERO RC ski shocks with coilover springs for maximum small bump compliance – compression and rebound adjustable
  2. Revised calibration on Arctic Cat IFP 2.0 rear track shock for improved comfort in small and medium bumps without sacrificing G-bump control
  3. New Torque Control Link engine plate is 0.75lbs lighter with increased strength than previous. Incorporates revised mounting to the bearing hub on the driven shaft
  4. New TPO composite air intake plenum replaces previous nylon unit and has 1.25lb weight reduction
  5. New longer front arm shock improves bump absorption and ride quality (129 models)
  6. Revised front arm design incorporates a revised limiter strap mounting location for improved shock clearance
  7. New Torque Sensing Link arm on rear suspension features a single bolt design for more strength and lower weight
  8. New Handlebar design is made from a new alloy steel weighing 0.5lbs less than previous bars and retains handlebar heat better from heaters
  9. New low-profile handgrip design is 3.7mm smaller in diameter for less hand fatigue. Material made from majority of rubber vs plastic resulting in a softer grip with enhanced tactile feel
  10. Revised mounting location for exhaust pipe reduces weight 0.25lbs
  11. Improved halogen headlight reflector optics extends the high-beam pattern downward by 5 degrees compared to previous years improving light pattern and aim coverage

February 1, 2017 – Arctic Cat delivers early release ZR 8000 to dealers with all-new Arctic Cat 800 C-TEC2 DSI engine

  1. GENII Bodywork launches
  2. New drive system (clutches) launches
  3. LED Headlight introduced

2018 ZR8000 MODELS

ZR8000 (129/137)

ZR8000 SNO PRO (129/137)

ZR8000 LTD (129/137)

ZR8000 RR (129/137)

ZR8000 EL TIGRE (129/137)

2018 ZR8000
  1. New Arctic Cat C-TEC2 8000 engine with Dual-Stage Injection launched in ZR Line-up 
  2. Media who experienced the new C-TEC2 engine said, “It’s a sweet step up from the venerable Suzuki 800, with the big difference being a nice bump in low- and mid-range performance, as well as much lower oil consumption.” 
  3. Per Arctic Cat and compared to the Suzuki mill, “The new 800 has a 36-percent increase in low-end torque (less than 5000 RPM), an 18-percent increase in mid-range torque (5000-6000 RPM) and 30 percent reduced oil consumption below 7000 RPM.”
  4. TEAM Rapid Response II with ADAPT on ZRs. This drive system debuted on the 2017 9000 models, and now across-the-board for 2018. The idea is beautifully simple: a roller bearing on the drive clutch (that allows much tighter belt deflection without wear) and a driven whose sheaves can continue squeeze inward, means minimized adjustment for belt wear. Plus, it’s ratio offers a 12.5 percent lower speed at engagement compared to conventional systems, allowing a smoother take-off and even less wear. Arctic Cat is calling it ADAPT, for Automatic Deflection Adjustment Performance Technology
  5. GENII Bodywork launched. The new styling designs improve airflow and are narrower with improved fit and finish. Side panels are quick and easy to remove/install with quick-turn knobs

2019 ZR8000 MODELS

ZR8000 (129/137)

ZR8000 SNO PRO (129/137)

ZR8000 LTD (129/137)

ZR8000 LTD iACT (129/137)

ZR8000 RR (129/137)

2019 ZR8000
  1. iACT Adjust-On-The-Fly Suspension Introduced
  2. Arctic Cat and FOX redefined what “quick and easy” meant for snowmobile suspension adjustment when they partnered to deliver QS3 shocks in 2016. Gone were the days of counting clicks and dealing with small dials (or even flat-bladed screws) for adjusting shock performance, replaced by the quick and simple 3-position QS3 system. Of course, being human beings, that still wasn’t good enough. We wanted adjusting shock control even easier. Welcome to iACT, an interactive and instant shock adjusting system. Using a thumb-operated button on the (new) left-hand controls of the handlebar that controls the ski and rear track shocks via a wiring system, riders have on-the-fly adjustability to instantly switch between three compression settings corresponding to Soft, Medium and Firm
  3. All-New Handlebar Controls Introduced
  4. Most 2019 Arctic Cat snowmobiles feature new handlebar-mounted controls that are easier to use while riding, with much improved ergo’s, and that transmit visible information on the digital instrument gauge 
  5. A button on the handlebar controls now toggles the display screen on the gauge (press the handwarmer button, and the gauge shows which of the five levels it’s set to) 
  6. A new push-to-start button (that doubles as the Reverse button) on 6000 and 8000 Series models allows the rider to keep both hands on the handlebars while starting models equipped with electric start
  7. Momentary-style hand and thumb-warmer switches provide more heat level settings and also prevent unintended setting changes
  8. Throttle lever is also new and nicely improved, with a smaller and easier to use shape
  9. All controls and housing are smaller and more integrated
  10. Kill switch is now separate from the throttle block so it can be easily rotated forward and out of the way
  11. New magnetic tether switch is far more user-friendly (when plugging in) than previous tethers
  12. New Stealth Lightweight Master Cylinder Brake System Introduced
  13. New shorter lever design for increased braking power with less required force compared to the previous design.
  14. New master cylinder is more protected and robust than the previous design, and is less likely to be damaged in extreme situations.
  15. New lever shape is more ergonomically comfortable, and its composite construction feels warmer compared to aluminum levers
  16. Tri-Hub wheel system replaced with new 3-wheel rear axle system and matched with new side idler wheels
  17. 9-tooth drivers added for more consistent, smoother performance
  18. New Handlebar pads and nicer handlebar wiring clean up aesthetics

2020 ZR8000 MODELS

ZR8000 (137)

ZR8000 iACT (137)

ZR8000 SNO PRO (137)

ZR8000 RR (137)

2020 ZR8000

  1. New ARS II front suspension introduced delivering improved and more confidence- inspiring handling on- and off-trail thanks to increased cornering bite and increased ground clearance. (This could be considered a third generation chassis)
  2. New forged aluminum spindles that are 1.5 in. taller from the ski to the lower A-arm
  3. New lightweight upper A-arms are more rigid
  4. Revised ARSII geometry delivering a new roll center and adjustable camber
  5. .625” of front arm travel was added to improve track tension to create more consistent ride and bump compliance
  6. GENII C-TEC2 800 Engine Launched
  7. New Cylinders, pistons, combustion chamber, flywheel and fuel rail
  8. All new fuel calibration strategy and Arctic Power Valve system with 3-stage control of the auxiliary exhaust ports via side valves
  9. iACT Adjust-On-The-Fly Suspension Adds Two New Driver Settings
  10. iACT Suspension combines a thumb-operated button on the left-hand controls of the handlebar that controls the FOX ZERO iQS3 ski and the rear track shocks, allowing the rider to instantly switch between three factory compression settings corresponding to
    soft, medium and firm, as well as two new additional settings for 2020 (Driver 1 and Driver 2) allowing custom calibrations between front and rear shocks 

2021 ZR8000 MODELS

ZR8000 LTD (137)

ZR8000 LTD ATAC (137)

ZR8000 RR (137)

2021 ZR8000 RR
  1. Revised Engine Mounting
  2. Removal of lower 3rd mount and lightweight lower engine mount plate
  3. Introduction of Carbon Fiber Composite Torque Control Link (TCL) which improved durability considerably over previous TCL
  4. New Carbon Fiber TCL reduced weight by 1lb
  5. iACT Adjust-On-The-Fly Suspension Name Changed to ATAC


2022 ZR8000 MODELS

ZR8000 (137)

ZR8000 LTD ATAC (137)

ZR8000 RR (137)

2022 ZR8000 RR
  1. All-new Arctic Cat ADAPT CVT System Introduced
  2. New Drive and Driven clutches are lighter-weight and employ a compact design with advanced idler system. ADAPT maintains constant belt tension throughout the RPM range resulting in minimized wear and maximum throttle response throughout your drive belts longer life without fade
  3. Improved Air Intake sealing around upper-to-lower plenums to reduce moisture intake


ZR 8000 137 QS3

ZR 8000 137 ATAC 



    • Thanks for the catch on the 2013 flat top tunnel! I had forgotten all the marketing images were photographed with the tapered tunnel, but by production, was changed to new flat top tunnel. 🙂

  1. Lots of changes and updates for sure…
    but still no drain plug on the chaincase after 10 yrs?
    frustrating maintenance,
    but factory prbly wants us to bring to dealer just like most new cars nowadays

      • Wow krommer. Family site here and also a free to think society. I am guessing. You are the one making a mountain out of a mole hill. Explain why since you are all knowing. Going after me tells me I am probably more correct than you.

  2. Don’t forget the 50th and white limiteds in 12.

    I wouldn’t call the tapered tunnel to straight tunnel a “new chassis” myself.

    The 2013 RRs had the REAL race version of the slide-action skid, with all major components, besides the rails, taken DIRECTLY from the 2012 Cross Country RACING 600, especially the shocks and manly 1 inch rear axle!

    I think the F name should have stayed. The ProCross is referred to as the F4 (future 4), like the F2 (Firecat) and the F3 (F-Series). The ZR name should have been left as a sacred piece of history, and left undisturbed.

    Also, I never liked the thousand series identification. I understood it, bigger number, more HP, but never dug it.

    The track length for the 14s was the same as the 13s. 128.7″ with a 2.86″ pitch, and 128.52″ with the 12’s 2.52″ pitch.

    I don’t like the magnesium idler wheel mounts. They are hollow.
    Ah, the Tri hub FINALLY got replaceable bearings in 16. But they were STILL TOO SMALL.

    I never understood why the radial master cylinder design was dropped. Works on the fastest streetbikes.

    ARS 2 spindles don’t mean a “new chassis” to me either.

    We still never got an explanation about why the engine was changed again in 20. Logically, to take care of some problems, not KEEP them and add MORE…

    Another thing. Look at how many variates of models were offered over the years!
    4 in 12
    5 in 13
    4 in 14
    5 in 15
    8! in 16
    10! in 17 through 19
    4 in 20
    3 in 21, and 22
    and limping in is a whole 2 in 23

    I’m telling you dudes. Arctic Cat NEED to do something, or be left in history. All they have to do is provide SOME evidence, REAL evidence of something REALLY NEW coming, not a 2020 Yamaha with Cat skis, bodywork, and clutches…But don’t hold your breath. I lived and breathed Cat for as long as I can remember, but this is the LAST CHANCE. I got a 23 Polaris brochure from my local Polaris, Ski Doo, and Yamaha sled dealer, and I gotta say, they offer STUFF! 7 engines! A million different track and color options! REAL NEW STUFF for 23! I’m going to get a Ski Doo brochure next time, and study it too.

    • Dave you bring up some great topics. And FYI I edited your comment to delete name calling. Its not necessary to have a quality conversation.

      One thing you bring up, is a great question to anyone reading here: What do you consider a new chassis? You, Dave, don’t consider it a new chassis when tunnel is changed, or front suspension and geometry are changed and that’s a fair opinion. Im curious what consumers consider a new chassis? What if Arctic Cat came with same chassis it has in 2023, called it something new and skinned it with some futuristic bodywork? That a new chassis?

      Why updated 800 engine in 2020? Emissions. Plain and Simple.

      You question the number of model variants offered over the course of the years. It has nothing to do with Textron taking over. In 2016-2019, there were too damn many model offerings IMO. And once QS3 shocks were introduced (soft, medium, firm settings) there wasn’t need for a multitude of offerings. And as far as the two models offered in 2023, I feel like we’ve covered this plenty – due to supply chain, this is all they can offer.

      Threatening to leave Arctic Cat to buy another brand(s) – I appreciate your loyalty and depth of knowledge towards Arctic Cat, but Ill tell you and anyone else to go try those other brands. Its ok. I spent plenty of time on competitive models this winter to know they do some things really well, but they also have their quirks too. You spend enough time on something, you’ll think the grass is greener on the other side. (Its our human nature)

      • 13 wasn’t a new tunnel, it was just a new rear piece (shortened version of the mountain tunnel rear piece, that uses the mountain flap), the entire rest of the chassis remained the same, with no geometry changes (right down to the part numbers).
        GII is closer to being a chassis change, (not quite as many changes as doo made from G4 to G5) but lots still stayed the same. GII has a different heat exchanger (which after seeing and hearing all the complaints of overheating, unfortunately tends to not work as well as the prior design) But aside for different mounting holes in the tunnel for the cooler all the basic parts are the same as 2012, and will all interchange.

        IMHO a new chassis means a new tunnel (with new running boards, new foot rests etc), new bulkhead, new over-structure. With new geometry, to make it stiffer, lighter, stronger and work better.

      • BRP, and to an extent,Polaris, has been referring to their changes as ‘platform’ and imo it’s the consumers calling it a new chassis. That said and being kind ’18 was about the closest to a ‘platform’ change they’ve made. The trouble for A/C is that buyers of other brands took one glance at it and saw nothing but the 2012 P/C.. same goes for 2022, 2023…

        Semantics matter

      • It’s not name calling if it’s true. For those wondering I compared the owners of Cat and their actions to sea lampreys and other like creatures, and made some obvious observations about performance or lack thereof from the non Suzuki 800s.

        What do I call a new chassis? Going from the original ZR to the Firecat and the M/Crossfire, the Firecat and the M/Crossfire to the F-Series and Sno Pro chassis, the F-Series and Sno Pro chassis to the ProCross. I don’t consider it a new chassis, but REFINEMENTS. And refinements are GOOD. The original ZR changed bulkhead material, 3 hood/bellypan combos, 4 front suspensions, and 3 rear suspensions, but it’s still the ZR.

        Emissions? How come Polaris can make 7 2 strokes, one of which is CARBURETED, and Ski Doo makes 4, whereas the unmentionables only make 2 1/2? I don’t buy it.

        Too many models? Like having 48 mountain sleds? Those sleds all did different stuff and looked different.

        I covered the supply chain too. Consequences and significant fines to those who can’t produce what they quoted.

        I didn’t say I was leaving. I am observing the competition, seeing WHY so many ARE leaving.

  3. I like the procross and evolution/refinement is a good thing. Some of the improvements have been great such as the gen II plastics. Overall, it’s a solid chassis that I’m comfortable being on and driving. The chassis doesn’t feel as high or tippy as others. The front suspension is very good. IMO the misses after more than 10 years with this chassis are the integrated oil tank that you can’t see the oil level with; the lack of chaincase drain (the other brands have it again); the TCL design that adds parts and complexity with no real benefit; the lack of chaincase oil drain; and the lack of a factory mounting system for tunnel bags, cans, or other accessories. LINQ has been around for years but AC is still selling 2010 technology. It has a lack of flexibility and the idea of attaching a tunnel bag directly on the tunnel of a 15K sled so the powder coat can be ruined isn’t good.

  4. Great article summarizing the evolution over the years.
    Regardless, none of the various iterations were considered setting new industry standards when compared with Ski Doo and Polaris.
    Once upon a time, the industry rags all considered Arctic Cat as the standard by which all others were judged but those days are long gone. “Performs admirably” is not the same as being considered having industry-leading technology, performance, weight, suspension, etc.

  5. I don’t consider this chassis old technology, and appreciate all the changes over the years. Especially on my 2018 which I think was the year of new body panels. Simple to get everything off and exposed for working on. I also know the cross country racers have been kicking ass on what many are saying haven’t changed for 10 years. Really? Take a look at the racers that left Cat for more money. They are not having the success they had on Cat.

    I do have a question maybe you could help with, to clear up a few things.

    what has Textron brought out from the time of the purchase. I know it takes a few years for r&d. I am looking for 100% Textron development. Is there anything they can put their name on as a product or complete unit? Very curious, and thank you for doing all you do for Arctic Cat.

      • The Stampede was purchased/ renamed from another company purchase. Same for the Havoc. The Prowler Pro would be Textron as would be the Wildcat XX. May have been in development by Arctic Cat but brought out after Textron’s purchase. Same for the Alpha skid frame.

        • I have a havoc, and love it. It now has over 5000 miles and just normal wear items. Textron no longer offers this model. The prowler, alpha, and XX wildcat were all in the works prior to the purchase, as well as the Blast, and riot. From what I have seen maybe the new 600 atv would be one. Other than that, I don’t know what they have come out with?

          • Well point is Textron completed the task. Cat was not going to be able to thanks to lots of management mess ups. Bad boy created the havoc btw.

        • You never get tired of being wrong do you?? Textron bought bad boy in 2010, and are the ones who developed the havoc/stampeed. They bought weber to power them.

          • The XX and the Prowler Pro were not fully developed when They bought Cat. Textron finished as they owned Cat when they were released.

          • I love the Havoc with that motor, it rocks. Other than being louder than I prefer, the unit overall is awesome. Love the extended cab as well. I do really hope they come out with some SXS models soon. The Dirt side is YEARS behind the competitor. I don’t think anyone reading this would disagree, other than Textron. They have improved the prowler, but still very low on power, and no factory cab. Why not just put a small turbo on it from the factory? Same with the XX? I for one don’t understand what they are doing with the whole off road department.

  6. Great article, I snow checked a 12 Xf800 Lxr. When It came in i was told artic cat had to pull electric start this year from 800s. Because of the tsunami in japan that year. Fast forward 2022, snow check thundercat and it doesn’t come in at all. Maybe it’s just an anniversary year thing. Lol. In 12 my xf was untouchable and I loved that sled. And I’ve had many cats since that sled and they have been great, but I’m ready for something new that actually gets attention in a good way when I pull up somewhere.

  7. Great article! Finally, a breakdown of the evolution of the Procross. Thanks Kale! For the record, I LOVE my 2015 600 RR! If a new ’23 was in the budget, I would order one in a heartbeat. I don’t care what the other brands are up to. The truth of the matter is, ALL the current machines available are fantastic, well engineered machines. Ride what spins your track, end of story. Me, I like Team Green! One gripe though. As mentioned above, I think it was a marketing blunder to bring back the ZR namesake. Always found it odd. Polaris did it as well with Indy. Lazy and uninspiring.

    • The Naming exercise is one of the most difficult parts of any new model launch. At the time, I was one of the dozen or more who voted to bring back the ZR name. (You can blame me. 🙂 )

      Here’s what the Styling Committee looked at…The 2003-06 Firecat brought a subset name with it – F. (F5/6/7) The TwinSpar chassis era (2007-11) carried the F name forward. (What the Twin Spar didn’t bring with, was the Firecat’s legendary speed and lightweight performance) It was decided by the committee to carry the F name into the new Procross Chassis (2012) because at that point it had a fairly longstanding foothold within the Performance Trail line and a marketing story could be crafted around it.

      After the launch, there was kickback from dealers and consumers about the “uninspiring” F name…most citing that the new performance models were far superior to the Twin Spars they replaced and deserved better.

      On top of that, dealers and consumers wanted an iconic cat name to return. So, we looked at Cat names…Panther, Pantera, Cougar…all of those names felt like they had been diminished over the years as touring-type sleds (and we were keeping the Thundercat name in our back pocket for the 2017 launch) We kept coming back to ZR as it had great name equity in regard to performance snowmobiles and could be built upon for a performance trail brand for the future. Personally,I applaud what Ski-Doo has done with the MxZ name…for the same reason, I hope ZR sticks for the future.

      • Cool back side story.

        RR – ‘Racer Replica’ (big sigh)
        That moniker has hopefully died in 2022… please

        as you said… MXZ, XCR… and RXC (600/800)
        Or, how about bringing the back ‘Sno Pro’ label to befitting models… not the economy models with cheap shocks and budget minded features?

        No dewatering in 2024, or Gray

      • It is said history repeats itself. I for one would like to see the actual Cat names come back: Panther, Cheetah, Lynx, Puma, Cougar, El Tigre, Wildcat, Sabercat and any other Cat family names. Glad they kept the Thundercat name. I want one.

  8. I too want to know what people consider to be a new chassis. Actually, I what to know more of WHY do people want/need a new chassis? What is so wrong about the current one? All the changes that took place from 2012 to 2023 is new and different. I guess we all have a different view on what we think or know is a different sled. Again, I have to comment on the lack of marketing and the loss of dealerships on these changes each year. If Cat would have marketed these changes each year better like the competition did, I truly believe this chassis debate and all the comments about Cat has nothing new to offer would not be discussed as much. I hear you when you say it’s a perception thing. Again, it’s the poor marketing and the loss of many dealers that caused this. Yes, I am a Cat faithful and always will be. I am very pleased with all the changes Cat has made to their sleds. They’ve made them better and different every year from that time period. I don’t need a new chassis but if they come out with one it will have to outperform the current one and the competitions. I just hope they don’t make it ugly like the competition sleds and I hope they don’t have a new chassis just to accommodate the ones that say Cat has had nothing new since 2012. The truth is Cat has produced new since 2012 and we haven’t even talked about EPS, ALPHA, mountain sled changes, 200s, and the BLASTS yet.

    • Ken – your last point is a really good one which myself, and anyone reading, can tend to lose sight of when you focus on one model like this…at the same time each of these F/ZR 800 models were launching, so were other new models and/or technology for Arctic Cat. The engineers have definitely not sat idle.

      • Pretty simple… sales numbers that pay for everything matter. Can you add # of units sold for each year? I would love to see that data.

        If they ain’t sellin’, they ain’t investin’ in new product, or the race program, or pretty much anything. The ‘utterly unaltered’ 18 forward Procross has been (per unit) profitable for Textron because they’ve made the bare bones minimal investment on it. Tooling costs alone for a new ‘platform’ or ‘chassis’ aren’t in the cards because (in my opinion) they aren’t selling enough to warrant the expense.

  9. I enjoyed the article. Thanks, Kale.

    When people say that the ProCross hasn’t changed, my first reaction is, does it need to? Can you be specific as to why? Often, they either can’t or won’t say why this is needed.

    Saying it’s old and hasn’t changed is not a productive frame of mind. If someone says the seating position needs to be improved and they won’t buy another Cat until it is (just as an example, because I actually like the seating position), then that’s productive. But, to say that they won’t buy another Cat until they come out with a new chassis is just a cliché.

    I happen to like the ProCross. However, I’m not looking for a used one, simply because of how many improvements have been made. I’d buy a new ProCross before I’d buy a used one.

  10. Cool back side story.

    RR – ‘Racer Replica’ (big sigh)
    That moniker has hopefully died in 2022… please

    as you said… MXZ, XCR… and RXC (600/800)
    Or, how about bringing the back ‘Sno Pro’ label to befitting models… not the economy models with cheap shocks and budget minded features?

    No dewatering in 2024, or Gray

  11. Good Article! first I think the issue with with “new chassis” is even when they updated it still looked allot like past model at a glance. most never realized it was any different. 2nd i would call a new chassis would be new bulk head and tunnel. basically the entire foundation. Yes SD and Pol have been using the same geometry on there bulkhead with SD only changing structure for strength. 3rd I would like to see cat use and 2 deferent chassis for trail and mountain. The geometry of there trail sleds is awesome and if feel is the best hands down but what makes it great on trail fights you off trail. They have made huge advances and it is good but it still lacks good balance while on its side unlike the old XF chassis. I believe they should go back to close space arms and move the motor up some until it has good side balancing point. I believe this is why Pol wins in this category. also need to move the rider slightly more forward in the foot well department. helps with backcountry cornering. lastly make it look light/small. even if Cat is lightest the body looks massive vs other sleds, but guessing with new clutch that’s in the futer

    • Please do not raise the engine. The Mountain sleds are just fine right now. Do not make them narrower as that only makes them colder.

    • The mountain chassis is a different chassis from the trail sled. The mountain platform is called the ascender platform and has different track geometry from the trail sled. The procross platform is for the trail sleds.
      Unfortunately, because the bodywork between the two are the same, most people get this confused.

        • That will be interesting. Using the procross chassis for the mountain is where Cat lost its way, in my view. The M was king of the hill and the procross (or proclimb) not so much. Hopefully they can get back on top out there, where the money is made.

          Appreciate all the info on this site.

          • Exactly what i was getting at. what makes them such a great trail sled negates what makes a good mountain sled. Not that its bad, just could be better. just take a Pol or old Mountain cat and try to balance it on its side. much easier balance point

  12. I think what you outline above is the normal progression of every model year to year. The customer expects these incremental improvements as a given regardless of manufacturer. Personally I believe Cat has done fairly well here except that many of the “improvements” came in response to inadequate design or material quality on the first go around. The most recent one that comes to mid are the exploding team primaries, hence the move to the ADAPT. Still others fail to address known issues like the Hayes brake bearing/driveshaft slip-fit interface that consistently eats driveshafts, or, mushy seat foam on the trail seats anyone? But like I said, I don’t think Cat has been totally asleep here.

    The chassis, to me, is the the core structure which includes mainly the spars, bulkhead, and suspension&drivetrain connection points. The design, geometry, and materials used in these areas contribute to the the overall feel of the sled, riding position, and comprise the majority of the machine’s personality. In these areas the Procross is nigh completely unchanged. There is no question the Procross is a good sled. At one point it was the best sled on snow. IMO (and many other former Cat riders) It isn’t anymore and hasn’t been for some time. And since when has “good” been enough for Arctic Cat?

    The fact is, the offerings from Ski-Doo and Polaris are lighter and far more playful than the Procross with distinctly more engaging riding experiences. I’m shorter than average and find the ergonomics of the Procross too far back and relaxed compared to the competition. I don’t expect a new chassis every 4 or 5 years a la the Firecat and Twin Spar, but 12 years and still nothing?? The only run even close to that long in the modern era is the Doo XP/XS at 9 years.

    Thankfully they’re still the best looking sleds on snow. Can we get back to: “When you ride the Cat, nobody asks why”, cause I’m pretty sure the opposite has happened over the last 5 years.

  13. Thank you for your list. It must have taken a long time to develop. However, the one thing I noticed in the list that hasn’t changed much in the last twelve years is the rear skid. (Beside a few changes for durability.) There has not been anything new, truly new for the butt and the slide action is getting a little long in the tooth. If they came out with a revised front suspension in 2020 and a new clutch in 2022 this should have been the year with a revised rear skid. After all, the rags seems to rate the rear skid behind Ski-doo and Polaris. Cat has the best front end in the industry. It is time for them to improve upon the rear ride now.

    • Hi Dale,

      I can see how you would arrive at that opinion. If you’re looking for a completely different, high performance rear skid, take a look at the ZR R XC from the last few years (and again for the 2023). They are absolutely unique, compared to all the other Arctic Cats, and ride and handle like a million dollars. I absolutely would not trade mine.

      The front arm is many inches longer (not to mention much stronger), and in my opinion, this changes everything, geometry-wise. Its as good at eating bumps and giant holes, as it is for general trail riding. You’re always in precise control, and yet, it’s not an overly stiff ride, like most race machines.

      Even I, as a lifetime Arctic enthusiast who follows closely each model year, did not realize until recently just how unique they were until recently… and there aren’t many R XC’s around, so it would be easy to understand how this info could’ve slipped under the radar. Just my opinion… thanks!

          • I agree that the R XC has a better rear skid from what I read and heard from the rags. I also agree with Katden4 that this year they should have thrown it on a few other models. To klj point, it does seem like a no brainer since they were not releasing a new chassis.

            After everything Cat should have done for the 60th and this year, they really need to hit it out of the park with something new or they will have a worse marketing/perception issue then they already have. I am not ripping on Cat sleds or engineers or arctic insider, I an ripping on whoever is making the overall decision.

        • because the RXC is the only short track (129″) Cat has in their full sized trail model stable and the skid is completely different than the 137’s. BRP & Polaris both offer 129’s and 137’s in 600/650/850, but not Cat.

          fwiw there was a patent a few years ago from Cat that surfaced for a new skid from Brian Dick and Ben Langaas… yet nothing except Brian Dick being fired.

          patent with pics

          • That was a patent for 4 different suspensions. Very unique thinking using a flat spring similar to a leaf spring.

  14. I would like to see the running boards made level with the seat back to the rear suspension mounting bolt and then stop. The current sloping downward towards the front running boards make it difficult to stand with your feet rearward. My 2011 Cat sno pro 600 race sled has flatter boards as does Polaris and Ski doo, wish Cat would go back. Also love the foam density on my 2011 sno pro, the procross seats seam too soft.

    • Exactly… the riding position, boards and seat have never been addressed since 2014, even though every media outlet and most owners complain about it. Cat makes changes… they just don’t listen to their customers!
      I bought a 2022 and now I have to go buy a seat, or be miserable

      • Curious question(s) Greg and BL –

        1. Running Boards – We all ride different, and for me personally, once my feet are in the main foothold area, they typically don’t move, nor do I feel the need to move them rearward more than maybe a couple inches. That said, Im 6’4″ and have longer leverage than most, and this center point of the snowmobile works best for my mobility. My question – During what types of riding do you want your feet positioned further rearward?

        2. Seat Foam Density – this is one area of a snowmobile that changes far more than you think but may not be talked about. The goal for engineering is to reach a middle ground for comfort level. The problem is, what I think is soft, the next guy will say is too stiff. Again, it all goes back to how we all ride differently, and have varying body types/weights. Maybe we need Sleep Number type seats like beds? 🙂

        IMO – the perfect seat exists on the R-XC.

          • A ton of customers and magazines have been complaining about the seat every year since 12. the change in 14 helped, but the seating position isn’t as good as it should be, its too low. Lots of guys run the mountain seat because it sits higher (even though the tape measure says its the same as the trail seat, the shape and density of the foam keep you higher)
            As for the boards, I agree with BL and Greg. the 08-11 sno pro chassis was much better in both seating position and running boards.
            I’m 6-4, with a 36″ inseam, run the 8.5″ steering block, and have it pivoted all the way forward. If the trails are flat, and I’m down low on the tank its good, but when it gets rough, and is time to stand, I need to move my feet rearward, to get more towards where the sled pivots, and to make some room between my hips and the bars.
            FWIW I like the rxc seat, but it still suffers from being too low/soft.

  15. Agree on the running boards, my 10 sno pro boards are so much better than the two procross units i ride. Its also a lot better when carrying a passenger as they stay wide and flat to the rear.
    While i love the procross looks, the former sno pro chassis was the best platform the boys in TRF ever released.

  16. What is the difference between evolution and refinement?

    Some of these items like the revised halogen headlight in 2017 is not evolution since it simply fixed an issue that perhaps should have been addressed prior to the release of the 2012 model. The release of the 2012 model had Cat scrambling to refine a lot of issues in the years ahead, which took them away from evolution.

  17. Another thing that stands out to me on this comprehensive list of improvements; where’s the innovation?
    Just a few examples:
    -Gen 2 LED headlight (2017)? Polaris 2015
    -Gen2 quick release bodywork (2017)? Polaris 2015
    -SDI 800cc 2 stroke (2018)? Ski-doo circa 2004
    ATAC is awesome, but the iQS version can be purchased directly from Fox and is available for any brand sled

    The ZR isn’t class leading in nearly any category save for maybe front end performance and styling. Cat/Textron has disappeared from heads up comparisons in major publications/media and it’s clear why:
    -800 is outmatched by the 850s from Doo and Poo (which are also now available turbocharged). Really none of the Cat 2 stroke engines can boast best in class power or efficiency.
    -Least compliant falling rate geometry rear skid with the least amount of weight transfer
    -heaviest in its class
    -fewest options across the board, engines to color choices
    -worst premium gauge option
    -most dated ergos (kinda comes naturally when the sled is in it’s 12th iteration)

    Even the flagship Thundercat is slower than the nearly identical SRX out of the box due to gearing and clutching differences.

    As illustrated clearly above, the updates have been less and less since Textron’s ownership and still no all-new unit…Share our passion?…apparently the passion has gone fishin’

    • Yes you can buy the IQS for any sled but at what cost? $600.00 option for cat. Betting it is a little more than that for the option on brand lower x. I have had no problems with the skid. I like that it keeps the ski’s down where they are meant to be instead of sky high. Cat’s 600 is the best performing 600 out there and it took Poo and Doo adding extra CC’s to compete with cats 800. My take anyway.

      • The ctec 600 is a sweet motor, I have one. But it is NOT a class leader. Neither is the 800 ctec (also a sweet motor). To add insult to injury, the 850 Doo dropped the year Cat released their in-house 800 immediately taking all the wind out of those sails.

        My point is this…if Textron’s Arctic Cat is gonna gut the racing budget, advertising budget, dealer network, parts inventory, salesroom inventory, model options, etc., then I absolutely expect to see something truly innovative released. If they don’t, and they 100% haven’t, there’s no reason to stay. All of the draws one could have historically cited for Arctic Cat products outside of performance and innovation like family, pride, passion, racing, and heritage, were out the window when a huge multi-billion parent company bought them and eliminated or gutted all of them. “The little company that could” got bought by the company that WON’T.

        • All the rags have ridden cats new iron but because of the supply side issues, cat wisely chose to wait in my opinion. Cats racing budget is smaller than the other lesser brands but still brought home all the big wins and points championships that matter. Cross Country. I am still waiting for my 2022 ZR 6000 RR to show up at the dealership. Could care less what the 2023 lineup is after seeing the HUGE price increases, but they will sell every sled they can produce.

    • One reason the media doesn’t talk about cat is because textron quit giving them sleds to test. Snowtech had to buy a riot to review it. The only thing they provide are the blasts. Another example of them not making an effort. I get cutting all these costs for a certain period of time, since cat wasn’t profitable when textron bought them but at some point you need to need to invest in promotion.

  18. Arctic Insider-When running down whooped out stretches of trail where you have to stay standing, if your feet are too far forward you have to hold yourself up by pulling on the bars which quickly will tire your upper body as well as your legs. If you move your feet rearward a little you can find a point of balance with your body and actually rest some of your weight on the bars thru your arms, this is much less tiring. To be clear, I don’t own a procross yet, I have ridden a few briefly and this is what I have noticed. I have over 15000 miles on my 2011 600 sno pro and need to retire it one of these years. I agree we all have different riding styles, it seems to me the flatter running boards would work for all styles. I haven’t sat on a new RXC so I don’t know what those seats are like.

      • Still typing about things you don’t understand…
        The sno pro chassis was far better than the procross in the conditions BL is talking about (IMHO its better than the procross for everything but creature comforts)

        • You dont have a clue. That sled is gone! Never coming back krommer. Pro Cross in my opinion is fantastic in what it is made for. But janitor”s are allowed opinions.

    • That’s part of the problem with the procross compared to the competition – seat is too low. Takes more effort to change from sitting to standing.

        • I’m 5-8 and I’m here to tell you, even for us short guys, the other OEMs have an easier transition from sit to stand hands down. The ergos of the Cats are not even close to Polaris or Ski-Doo. As others have mentioned in this thread, the Procross was honestly a big step back in ergonomics from the 08-11 sno pro chassis. Sorry for being a downer, but I’m done being gracious. Time for Textron/AC to get the tough love they truly need.

          • Rode them all and still prefered the Cat. It fits me perfectly. Doo was squirrelly and not a fan of the narrow hard seat on the Poo. Glad we have choices.

          • The sno pro chassis was an almost hand built sled, could not fit a 600, let alone 800 as it was configured and was not a very comfortable trail sled. Pro Cross in its current is Awesome!

  19. What do I call a new chassis? Going from the original ZR to the Firecat and the M/Crossfire, the Firecat and the M/Crossfire to the F-Series and Sno Pro chassis, the F-Series and Sno Pro chassis to the ProCross. I don’t consider it a new chassis, but REFINEMENTS. And refinements are GOOD. The original ZR changed bulkhead material, 3 hood/bellypan combos, 4 front suspensions, and 3 rear suspensions, but it’s still the ZR.

    Emissions? How come Polaris can make 7 2 strokes, one of which is CARBURETED, and Ski Doo makes 4, whereas the unmentionables only make 2 1/2? I don’t buy it.

    Too many models? Like having 48 mountain sleds? Those sleds all did different stuff and looked different.

    I covered the supply chain too. Consequences and significant fines to those who can’t produce what they quoted.

    I didn’t say I was leaving. I am observing the competition, seeing WHY so many ARE leaving.

    To boomer Jim:
    All the rags have ridden Cat’s new iron? I don’t believe it. I’ll believe it when I see this “new iron” for myself, in PERSON, which I still don’t think is going to happen. I smell bankruptcy.

    You still haven’t gotten your new year old sled? I thought you said you did, and you were leaving it at your dealer? I am con-fu-sed…

    • “I am still waiting for my 2022 ZR 6000 RR to show up at the dealership”
      “It will stay at the dealer until Octobet.”
      So is it there or NOT? By the way, when is Octobet?

      I am an idiot? How so? Tell me. But, it seems like more on here agree with ME than you. So are they idiots too?

      Magazines get wrong info all the time! They say Cat has a 7000 this year, REMEMBER?

      Find a supplier? Yes. Who wants business? You fail to realize the only way out of this current situation is punishment for the non producers. SOMEWHERE down the line is someone dragging their feet.

      “Karen Karen Karen”. Can’t you come up with a new joke? Jeez. I’m the idiot though.

      • If the suppliers cant get parts, they will not commit to this. Same reason you see so few cars and trucks at dealer lots. No one will do business the way you think, but that is the Karen way of life. Kick and scream until you are heard. No one will listen.

      • You just fixed the supply issue effecting the entire planet Karen. Every corporation, just find new suppliers. All these new start ups with tons of components at a snap of a finger. Now I can just walk into my auto dealer and grab the pickup I ordered 6 months to a year ago. New pontoon delivered Monday. Thanks for saving us! Not!

        • Boy oh boy, you REALLY got it out for me don’tcha Jimmy boy?

          “If the suppliers cant get parts, they will not commit to this.”
          Then they lose business, and their competition gets it. Simple. The ruthless and hungry will find a way.

          “Same reason you see so few cars and trucks at dealer lots.”
          Hmm. I see plenty of Japanese cars, Korean cars, and chinese Buicks…

          “No one will do business the way you think”
          Really? Hmm. Sell products, or not sell products. Hmmmm. Very difficult choice.

          “but that is the Karen way of life. Kick and scream until you are heard. No one will listen.”
          Seems like YOU are listening to me. Other Karens are listening and agreeing with me too.

          “7000 was pulled because of supply issues. You answered your own question. Good Karen!”
          You just don’t get it, do you? You just don’t. Here. Let me try to break it down for you grampa. Break it up into smaller peices so it is easier for your old brain to digest. I AM MAKING FUN OF YOU. YOU BELIEVE WHAT THE MAGAZINES SAY. THEY SAID THERE WOULD BE A 7000. THEY ARE WRONG. WHERE IS YOUR PROOF THAT THESE BIRD CAGE LINERS HAVE RIDDEN THIS NEW IRON? SHOW ME. SHOW US!

          “You just fixed the supply issue effecting the entire planet Karen.”
          Many on this planet DON’T have that problem. See my above responses.

          “Every corporation, just find new suppliers.”
          Either that, or sit and go broke. Let me try again to get it through your head. Lemme see. Ahh. Got it. You want to watch Matlock. But Matlock isn’t on! You can either wait til it’s on, or watch something else! NOT HARD.

          “All these new start ups with tons of components at a snap of a finger.”
          That they can’t sell, because, like I said earlier, someone somewhere is DRAGGING THEIR FEET. How come, oh wise one, we didn’t have this problem 3 years ago? Hmm? What’s changed? I’ll TELL you. The human race. Especially lazy Americans. Once they figured out they don’t HAVE to work for money, they WON’T. Stop paying these f–kers to stay home, and get their @$$3$ BACK TO WORK! Anyone who wants that poison shot got it already. GET BACK TO WORK. Do you remember H1N1? Bird fru? Swine fru? They didn’t shut down the WHOLE F–KING WORLD for those, what makes this fru so different? I’ll tell you. Lies in the mainstream media. They used this chinese made illness to keep people from voting in person, so they could manipulate the votes, and get joetato in office, to pay them TO STAY HOME. And who is being helped? FILTHY OVERPAID AND UNDERWORKED UNIONS. Who would vote for SATAN if he was on the demoRAT ballet. Wake up man.

          “Now I can just walk into my auto dealer and grab the pickup I ordered 6 months to a year ago. New pontoon delivered Monday. Thanks for saving us! Not!”
          Where are these vehicles made? US? Gonna have a problem. Like I just typed.


  20. I’m sorry, but when I climb on my sno pro chassis I feel it’s a step ahead of the procross and I’ve owned both. That snopro was the best sled Arctic cat made! We’ll see what Textron can do

  21. Interesting perspective. Still a long in the tooth chassis or platform. Sales numbers tell the tale. Future new chassis is 2024? It better be a game changer or there will only be two.

  22. The supply issue is real, effects every business from every Country. Sales are down all the way around while prices are spiking. You and your magic wand is not going to fix this over night. Started with Covid, add in a fire that shut down the largest micro chip maker for months. No chips. No making of most components used in everything. Polaris is still building 22’s or have sleds and ATVs without shocks and gauges. My sled in particular needs shock compliments. Should Textron fine them? NO! It would only make things more expensive and you still would not get it any sooner.

    • “Downer, I mean Karen.”
      Hey Amy Schumer, can’t you steal a new joke?

      “The supply issue is real, effects every business from every Country.”
      Funny. I’m watching baseball and every commercial break is Ford bragging about new cars…Ram too…

      “Sales are down all the way around while prices are spiking.”
      I’ll ask again. What is so different now than 3 years ago?

      “You and your magic wand is not going to fix this over night.”
      I never claimed it would fix it overnight.

      “Started with Covid”
      Which is over now. Get back to work.

      “add in a fire that shut down the largest micro chip maker for months. No chips. No making of most components used in everything.”
      A fire took down the WHOLE INDUSTRY? There’s only 1 chip provider?

      “Polaris is still building 22’s or have sleds and ATVs without shocks and gauges.”
      What about Can Am/Ski Doo? How about Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, or Yamaha non snowmobile like vehicles?

      “My sled in particular needs shock compliments.”
      So that’s the answer. It still isn’t here. Obviously, you don’t mind, because you sprint to defend those that shall not be named at EVERY turn.

      “Should Textron fine them? NO! It would only make things more expensive and you still would not get it any sooner.”
      What is the holdup getting shock components for the RR? The only difference in the RR is Kashima coating. Is that what’s being held up? Why? You should be asking questions as to why your sled isn’t here! But then again, you don’t care.

      “Read the news for once you tool!”
      I bet I watch more news than you old man.

      “Still cracks me up.”
      Easy to make an old fool laugh.

      “Find a new supplier.”
      Yeah. Companies did it before. Polaris used to come with Fox shocks. Most Cat’s had Ryde FX. The 2001 Sno Pros had Dynamic Shocks. Some fancy Yamaha’s came with Ohlins. Ski Doo’s came with HPGs. Get the idea old man? MORE THAN 1 SUPPLIER FOR ANY GIVEN THING.

      “Dumbest thing ever on the internet.”
      Better than your idea, or lack thereof.

      ” You vote proudly for Biden?”
      Not hardly. I LOVE my country, and I will have words with you about that slander if I ever get the chance.

  23. Covid is not over. Try buying a new pickup equipped the way you want it. Cant get the coating for the shocks. Had a real stupid gal close her end gate last may on my brand new camper. Took out two aluminum panels and three windows. Parts just came in. Came from Europe. Keep up the dream Karen. Life is not far and soon enough it will make you come to grips. Oh, by the way, not just the coating as Fox has there parts for shocks gotten from various vendors. Supply issues is hitting them hard. We have two snow plow trucks on order two years out. Three chevy pickups cancelled due to, cant build due to supply issues. Later Karen. Facts are way to high over your head.

  24. I’m so sorry about all this Kale. Is there some sort of arena, where Karens like myself, can prove that jim is wrong? A place where others, who aren’t involved directly, but are interested, from this site, can watch?
    Please let me know.

  25. @JimR The truth is that if the procross was awesome in its current state, every website, forum, and group wouldn’t be full of people complaining, and leaving AC to buy sleds from the other manufactures.
    Just look at the comments here, this place is full of people who love AC, and go out of their way to read about the brand.
    Ever since Textron came along AC has been loosing market share at an alarming rate, because they have not innovated, or even kept up with the BRP or Poo.
    Pre-textron AC had patents for the snowbike, turbo 2 stroke, new rear skid, had been working on a color dash, bigger 2 stroke, etc.

    • Like the exact same 6 on here that are the same 6 on hardcore or freedomsledder or I can keep going and going ang going, but those same 6 would complain if it was all new but the wrong color. Nothing until next year. 2024. Supply issues pretty much locked that in. Not going to find new suppliers when they can’t get the componets to build new supplies. Not that hard Krom. In my area, we are Cat country. More cats than Polaris, Ski doo and Yamaha by a wide margin. We have all 4 dealers, but Cat just does better here. All new does not always add up to better. 2012 for proof. Better have it ready before you unveil it. Super limited supply at the very best.

      • The numbers don’t lie. AC is loosing market share at an alarming rate.
        Doo is over 50% market share, has been for quite a while now, and they are still gaining. Poo is gaining a lot of customers with a majority of their gains coming from guys leaving Cat. It wasn’t long ago that AC was very close to poo in market share, now ac and yami combined are only around half of poo’s share.
        Both poo and doo are able to release exciting new products this year, last year, and the year before, while AC has been silent since textron purchase.

        • I absolutely agree Krom. I’ve had nothing but Cat sleds my entire life, but the game has changed.

          If all the sled brands are now divisions of multi-billion dollar companies, then why would I ever support the one apparently couldn’t care less about snowmobiling!?

          Time and time again, Textron’s actions have ranged from ambivalence to downright contempt for the Arctic Cat legacy.

        • Ask I asked Kale in a different part of the comments section…

          Please post the sales #’s for each year starting in 2012 until today. If I had to wager I’d bet they’ve done nothing but go downhill in grand fashion.

          If the prices on the 2023’s are what I’ve seen thus far (as much or more than BRP & Poo) they aren’t going to sell many 2023’s

          • I think they’ll sell all they can manage to make, which might not be that many. I’m hoping that’s the reason they choose to do nothing new for 23.

            Here’s to hoping they have something new for 24, or even better, a new owner.

            They can keep making the procross as entry level for those who prefer to stick with the tried and true.

          • “Please post the sales #’s for each year starting in 2012 until today.”
            I’d like to see that too.

            “they aren’t going to sell many 2023’s”
            That’s the idea. Then the bloodsuckers don’t have to waste their precious helicopter and lawnmower money innovating anything new, don’t have to spend money buying parts, don’t have to spend money paying all those annoying employees, ETC ETC ETC.

            “I think they’ll sell all they can manage to make, which might not be that many.”
            I was estimating maybe 5 thousand snowmobiles. Easy to sell that many, even when it’s nothing new and higher prices. That’s why the Yamahas sold out in 27 minutes. When there’s only a handful to go around, ya run out quick. At least they aren’t dynamic charcoal.

            “Here’s to hoping they have something new for 24”
            Doubtful. Unless bankruptcy is considered new. Then yes! They’ll have lots of that!

            “or even better, a new owner.”
            The only ones interested in buying would be Doo or Polaris, just to get some useful patents and then gut the company, bloodsucker style!

            “They can keep making the procross as entry level for those who prefer to stick with the tried and true.”
            Not a bad idea at all! Simple but good IFP Fox shocks, maybe a less fancy gauge with no clock, altimeter, etc, and a reduced cost. Yeah right! Like the bloodsuckers would do something like that. Why not do all that, and RAISE the price! Nothing new for MORE MONEY! That’s the way!

        • Saw an article in snowtech mentioning how many people they’ve seen the past couple seasons wearing cat gear on other sleds. Sign of the times. People are voting with their wallets.

  26. Right, you are Krom.
    Procross is still good. But everyone wishes for that new ride that will smoothen out the worst trail. Only one thing that and will ever do that. Normally it’s big and pulling a drag.
    I for one still ordered up yet one more Procross, 8 total for me. A 6000 for the wife.

  27. “Pre-textron AC had patents for the snowbike, turbo 2 stroke, new rear skid, had been working on a color dash, bigger 2 stroke, etc.”

    Would ya mind posting the links to those if you have them, friend krom, just so we can see what good times WERE coming?
    Thanks! Buy ya a drink when I see ya?

      • That affects you too? Hmm. I thought it was only me and my bad attitude, no doubt noticed by the bloodsuckers not liking what I had to say about the way they are destroying Cat.

  28. ?????? Does Arctic insider get more hits than Arctic Cat’s actual website… this would be a good hint Textron marketing dept…..

    • round #s on facebook
      193k A/C
      427K SD
      758K Pol
      1.2M Yamaha USA
      Good job Yam. When I was at A/C dealer in 2012, Cat wanted to be like Harley (12m) on face book.
      Mission failed.


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